Movement Toward Sociahsm (MAS) has been Venezuela's third party, and the largest party on the Left, since the 1 970s. Now MAS is a part of the gov- erning coalition of President Rafael Caldera, and the party has won greater congressional representation than ever before. The MASistas are, however, clearly the junior partners in the Caldera coalitionthe unpre- dictable social Christians of Convergencia are the domi- nant partners. MAS is also in danger of being eclipsed by the workers' party Causa R as a critical force on the Left. The veteran MAS leader and theoretician Teodoro Petkoff was a prime mover behind MAS' association with Caldera. He was interviewed by Steve ElIner in his Caracas office on January 24. Caldera ca/Is for selective protectionism. What sectors could be singled out and on the basis of what criteria2 Some sectors of agricultural production which gener- ate the most employment in the countryside, as well as small- and medium-size agricultural property, have to be protected. I am thinking here of corn, rice, cereals. Of course, large property-holders do not need any protec- tion and can perfectly well be exposed to competition. Some sectors of small- and medium-size industry will also have to be protected. Of course, protectionism which implies discretionary powers on the part of the government frequently leads to corruption, but we have to run this risk because it is preferable to have a produc- tive apparatus with a capacity to generate sustained economic growth than to open the country to de-iridus- trialization as occurred under the Perez Administration. Caldera not only talks of selective protectionism but also of selective privatization. He wants to study each case individually. On the basis of what criteria should deci- sions be taken? Privatization has to be seen through pragmatic lenses. It is neoliberalism that is bent on converting the issue into one of ideology. Everything other than what com- mon sense says should be run by the state, should be destatized, which is a word I prefer to "privatize." Cer- tain parts of the state sector should be turned into cooperatives, which would promote new forms of deci- sion-making. I believe that the state sector should be concentrated in two areas: upstream activity in the oil industry and electrical energy. Following his election, Caldera spoke of the "politics of austerity." What sectors of the population should bear the brunt of these policies? First and foremost the government itself. The state has to carry out a policy of reduction and rationalization of spending and this implies, of course, the repression of a number of privileges, and ostentatious and conspicuous 20 NLA REPORT ON THE AMERICASREPORT ON VENEZUELA Since the collapse of Communism, the non-Communist Left has been on the defensive. We were affected not by the collapse itself, but by th e idea that no alternative to capitalism exists. expenses. And, in the second place, the very rich. The Venezuelan tax policy has to have two basic thrusts. First, the cre- ation of a fiscal police force which is so stringent and well-paid that it would be more expensive to bribe it than to pay taxes. And in the second place, an income-tax reform so that the rich pay what they are supposed to. Nowadays, many in the upper-income brackets in Venezuela pay no taxes at all. Fedecamaras [Venezuela's Chamber of Commerce] favors scrapping the system of severance payments for workers, a position which important sectors of orga- nized labor argue should not even be considered or discussed. What is your position on this extremely polemical issue? In a country where there is absolutely no system of social security worthy of its name, the worker's future is not assured even to the most minimum degree. To dis- cuss a modification in the present system of severance payment, without the existence of a satisfactory alterna- tive proposal, can only lead to lowering the cost of lay- offs. This is what is called in the jargon of neoliberal economists the "flexibility of the labor market," which means, in effect, making layoffs cheaper and easier. Workers have good reasons to oppose the "flexibility of the labor market" since the burden falls completely on their shoulders. To what extent can the ideological examination which is long overdue in MAS be enriched by a dialogue with other progressive Latin American parties? I believe that here in Latin America a new Left is emerging. It includes the Workers Party in Brazil, the PRD in Mexico, the M-19 in Colombia, Sandinismo, groups like MAS, and perhaps also some sectors of the Socialist Party in Chile. An all-important search is taking place. This search is necessary for a Left that since the collapse of Communism has been on the defensive. And I am talking of the non-Communist Left. We were affected not by the collapse itself, but by the idea that no alternative to capitalism exists. Now I hope this new movement will be located in a position which can be called "advanced social democracy." With regard to this "new Left"... I would actually prefer to call it the "emerging Left." The term "new Left" is not so new anymore. Would you say that opposition to neoliberalism is its common denominator, or is it committed to socialism? It is actually too soon to say. After all, it takes in parties with distinct tra- jectories. But none of these parties even remotely resembles the old Left. Perhaps the M-19 is in certain ways ahead of the others because it did not emerge from the old Left. These parties are a far cry from the ortho- dox Communist Left and Castro, for instance, who has refused to accept political competition in Cuba. Would you say that these parties are equal to the establishment parties in their defense of democracy? _______ They are far ahead. In Venezuela, there is no doubt that MAS deserves the credit for the direct election of governors and other important reforms that have been implemented in recent years. MAS was pushing these measures long before AD and Copei, which refrained from committing themselves to them until the late 1980s. Causa R displaced MAS as the nation's third largest party. Does this show that MAS needs to adopt a firmer discourse or build up its presence on the streets and in social movements? In any case, how is MAS analyzing the December results? Yes, these results need to be seriously analyzed. Causa R's electoral advances are in large part the result of its success in capturing the anti-Perez sentiment, due to its hardened opposition to his government. But we also firmly opposed Perez. What happened is that MAS has been around for 23 years, and people thus associat- ed us with the "old" politics. Many people don't realize that Causa R has been around almost as long. In fact, many people do not know that this was Andres Velasquez' third presidential candidacy, since the first and even the second did not draw much attention. This, of course, is not to deny the effectiveness of Causa R's work over the years, especially in select industries in the "iron zone." And the errors that MAS committed can- not be overlooked either. Our trade unionists, for instance, have negotiated good contracts, but they have not succeeded in completely differentiating themselves from AD and Copei in the CTV [Venezuelan Confedera- tion of Workers]. Nevertheless, the December elections were hardly a setback for MAS. Sure, we went from third to fifth place but this descent was relative since AD and Copei lost their near monopolistic status and we are thus in a much stronger position with regard to the establish- ment parties.
